Breaking Greenwald: NSA Analysts Have Access To ‘Powerful and Invasive’ Search Tools

Wasn’t it great that Glenn deflected George’s questions about Snowden and Russia in favor of keeping the NSA revelations themselves as the story, not the messenger?  It looks as though he wasn’t just a-woofin’ when he’d promised us that there were more explosive revelations to come.  The hearings that he referenced were two: one called by Rep. Alan Grayson for Wednesday July 31 ‘to hear from critics’ of the NSA program, and on the same day on the Senate side, ‘that will feature Gen Alexander and possibly his deputy, Chris Inglis, as well as senior officials from the Department of Justice and FBI.’

Greenwald has indicated that he will testify by video link.  He recently gave a link to the law that clearly shows it was illegal for Clapper to have lied to Congress.

In related news from The New Yorker:

“Mr. Snowden will not be tortured,” Attorney General Eric Holder wrote in a letter sent to Russia’s Minister of Justice on Wednesday. He added, as if saying so were adequate—as if it had, in recent years, been enough—“Torture is unlawful in the United States.” The letter, which the Department of Justice gave to the Times, is part of what appear to be discussions between the Obama Administration and the Putin government about where Edward Snowden, the N.S.A. leaker, might go next. He has been living in the transit zone of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport for some weeks now. Holder said that it wasn’t true that, with his passport revoked, Snowden couldn’t go anywhere without asylum: the government would gladly give him “a limited validity passport good for direct return to the United States”—and nowhere else. When he got here, Holder said, he wouldn’t be killed:

“First, the United States would not seek the death penalty for Mr. Snowden should he return to the United States. The charges he faces do not carry that possibility, and the United States would not seek the death penalty even if Mr. Snowden were charged with additional, death penalty-eligible crimes.”

Yeah, what a relief.  Not even Amy Davidson was buyin’ that crapitude.

Glenn speaks about the major change in attitudes over NSA surveillance and privacy issues here (including a new Pew Research poll conducted over the weekend).

Constitutional governments and aristocracies are commonly overthrown owing to some deviation from justice…the rich, if the Constitution gives them power, are apt to be insolent and avaricious… In all well-attempered governments there is nothing which should be more jealously maintained than the spirit of obedience to law, more especially in small matters; for transgression creeps in unperceived and at last ruins the state, just as the constant recurrence of small expenses in time eats up a fortune.”

~ Aristotle

I’ll be in and out (more Out than In, I reckon; miles to go before I sleep), but please do imagine out what all these ‘low level’ security folks might be doing, and be able to do with these powerful tools.

(cross-posted at My.fdl.com)

50 responses to “Breaking Greenwald: NSA Analysts Have Access To ‘Powerful and Invasive’ Search Tools

  1. Thank you, wendydavis, as usual. I have major catching up to do – a storm knocked out our internet Friday night – feel as though I have been on a distant planet somewhere. (Couldn’t quite decipher those smoke signals.)

    We got rain, and then some. My squash plants are taking over the world.

  2. realitychecker1

    So, I was skipping down the FDL front page to see what I missed in the last 24, and I tripped over your post on the actual front page. Congrats on the premium placement, darlin’, Of course, now you are definitely on the list . . .

  3. too pooped to participate, dears. they wore me out over yonder. trying to even understand some of the comments was hard, let alone answering them.

    yeppers, once a year they front page me, whether i deserve it or not. mightta just accidentally said groucho’s ‘magic word’, down the came the duck (quaaack!) and they frontpaged it. sleep well, your nsa is awake and listening, all for your own good.

    grandbabbies comin’ tomorrow, and didn’t i screw up my hip today gettin’ ready? of course i did. arrgh.

    • FYI–You should never put the info online that you are tired and/or injured; that’s when they come and get you. :-( Enjoy the grandbaby love, doll. ;-)

  4. they can have me, i swear, anonymous. christ, a rogue steer is in the yard, nosin’ around the tent we put up for the chirren. yep, wendydavis goes out to chase the little peckerwood away, armed with a broom, gallumphing down the gravel driveway, one hand clamped around the head of her femur…yeah, he was skeert ta death.

    turned around and looked at me, said: ‘Meh!’ so i’m considerin’ gettin’ out the crutches ta push him down the road…he can head back ta town for all i care; just gonna be hamburger anyway. ;-)

    sure wish i knew what caused the kerfuffle with ofg over yonder. but hell, i’ll just stick in a purdy song obey gave us one day…and love to you and everyone here. gotta go chase a slow elk, i reckon. lol.

  5. I too am not sure what OFG’s solution would be other than joining forces. He wants something different from what has happened before, that is, from the decay of a newly forged alliance having hopeful dreams but facing ‘the fire’ eventually.

    Indeed, that does seem the way of the world, and one would wish it wasn’t, so ‘we’ wouldn’t have to keep on going through the wringer, but unfortunately unless we invent some way of becoming immortal – the fundamental things apply as time goes by. Is there a difference over time? Seems like there could be as we understand science isn’t any more reliable than so-called spirituality when it comes to charting a course. Doing it in concert with nature (like that word ‘concert’!) is to me the sensible thing. I did read that ideology is only useful to the powerful as a tool to persuade the masses, so we should keep our ideologies to ourselves.

    OFG seems to be very angry at the frailty of man – and one can be of course, but frail beings have this advantage, that they can be led by inspiring leaders to good ends, not just distracted by the evil ones. (Hollywood and tv have a lot to answer for in that department.) These instruments can teach.

    Good on you, wendye, for trying very hard over there – that does count.

    • Is that a rogue steer, or a bum steer? Might be time to exhume the corpse of Randolph Scott lol (I always knew his time would come eventually. OTOH, burgers, burgers.) [ ] I think I get where OFG is coming from. We have such a tendency, as “reasonable” human beings, to focus on near term tactics, it seems somehow immature or impatient to want to go for longer term goals too precipitously. So we become so focused on being clever about our next short-term move instead. Like chess-players who don’t think beyond the next move or two. To be clear, I also fall into that camp, whether it be about chess or revolutionary change. I argued from years back at FDL that we needed to reject our extremists, all extremists, and seek to form a “centrist” alliance, meaning one focused on clean govt and rule of law and accountability rather than the divisive social issues and the highly theoretical economic ones. And I got viciously savaged for it by one and all. But, essentially, I was just making the same short-term tactical argument, recognizing that we simply did not have the power to force any change on our own, and therefore needed alliances, even with libertarians (Mercy!) in order to escape total irrelevance. I still have apprpriate respect for that, essentially, pragmatic view. [ ] But OFG is looking out further toward the horizon, and I respect that as well. For he is indeed correct as to our history, that we get minor adjustments, but we leave the bad guys wounded but not dead, not rooted out, and that means that they regenerate their elite group power as soon as we relax in enjoyment of our slight victories. They come back. They all come back. Just witness Larry Fucking Summers!!!! I mean, really, point made, right? [ ] OFG deserves respect for at least recognizing that a long-term victory, a better societal change that will at least have a CHANCE to result in a permanently better society, needs to bite the bullet and root out, as in DESTROY, the established and well-identified malefactors, the ones who refuse to exist as anything other than ruthless predators. That means, at a minimum, removing all their material wealth, the ready source of their ability to re-accumulate power, and probably the forfeiture of the lives of the worst of them. At least, they need to either lose their wealth and liberty (or lives), or be removed from the physical relationship with the various civilized societies. Now, having typed that out, one can readily see that we the powerless have no way to get there from here. So, while OFG’s long-term vision is clear, it is just a pipe dream to pretend that we have the ability to implement it from our current powerless status. It’s the old story about the flea fucking the elephant, and telling her, “Suffer, bitch!” after she screams her dismay at seeing a mouse run across her path in front of her. [ ] BTW, I guess I will keep showing here as Anonymous, since I am done with constantly re-entering all my info every time I try to comment. I trust you all know who I am. Even you, Mssrs. Clapper and Alexander–that’s right, i’m the guy who had sex with both your wifes while you guys were at the office this afternoon. Live with it. IOW, suffer, bitches.

  6. Just in case anyone is holding their breath wondering what happened at Saturday’s New Zealand protests against the GCSB bill, here’s a link I found after considerable searching (sorry, my internet service was down for several days) – this concerns the smaller community of Palmerston North, but in the comments you can hear from other participants as well:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/8977658/GCSB-protesters-lay-TV-complaint

    Funny they stuck it in ‘entertainment’, eh?

  7. Ah, darling juliania, the lie gets around the world before the Corrections Editor even wakes up. Even in the Land of the Hobbits. ;-(

  8. Especially in the land of the Hobbits, Anonymous. Remember, they have had no 9/11 comeuppance and Bush as war machine to face, analyze, come to some sort of terms with. They’ve trusted their government – why, it even changed labour laws to accommodate the Hobbit trilogy and they marched to accomplish that, the people did. This is a huge sea change for them. They are used to poohpoohing environmental freaks protesting this and that,(it’s a long long time back since the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior – I remember it because I’m an oldie and was there at the time) – but even they are gradually realizing, with Mother Nature giving a helping shake and shudder, that not everything this government is attempting to do is good for the country…only just starting, they are, but the protests are happening and it is good that they are.

    We’d all agree with you, though, that we don’t want to move on without looking back; that’s Obama talk. We didn’t like it when Nixon got his pardon; he was ‘let off’ and that blurred the demarcation lines. And the baddies did come back. So, yes, if that is OFG’s beef, I’m with him. I didn’t mean to state otherwise. Accountability is part of the general education of the people – they need desperately to see that justice is served. But that’s a different issue from the one I thought was being discussed over at FDL – which was, you need allies and if the heroes come from different political persuasions, that’s where we must stand on common ground.

    It’s ironic that the hobbit theme is pretty apropos. Those weren’t your average hobbits, those few young dissidents in the tales. And certainly, joining with others far different from them was the entire fascinating story. (I never could take up any of the later fantasy writings – not even Harry Potter. The Lord of the Rings was it for me, kiwi that I am, even before the movies were a gleam in Peter Jackson’s eye.)

    • As always, I’m appreciative of the way you use literature to provide illuminating shadings of the immediate situation, juliania, :-) [ ]Accountability, as I used it way back then, was an obvious common ground where we could hope to get agreement with such supposedly alien creatures as libertarians, along with rule of law and clean govt. So, it’s the same issue, find viable aliiances and be effective, or stay pure and irrelevant. Either way, just about short-term tactics. The need for a hard-nosed long-term vision remains, as OFG is tying to point out, I believe.

  9. wow, for now, rc, methinks that you and others, including mr. wd and the good minister soral defined what he’d said in much the same way as the blindfolded folks each touching different parts of an elephant, and coming up with different configurations as to the whole.

    i’m with juliania’s theory, and i’m not even sure on what hill he planted his flag, esp. given his own diary where no one seemed to be able to understand. clearly he’s pissed, but i don’t get yet if it were electoral coalitions or massive resistance cum nonviolent revolution he meant…at all. he switched tacks mightily from comment to comment, in any event.

    long term doesn’t mean much to me, given that the window is closing so very quickly. but again: to not empower everyone…fuck that idea. that’s just purity stuff: ‘we’re right, you’re wrong, get out of the tent. yeah, libertarians suck, and snowden, greenwald are libertarian hangouts who only care about what’s good for business. ptui.

    juliania, on that ‘hijack cars remotely’ thread, i had put in a video of kim dotcom above the will alan ramsey video. more later.

    • Well, I think I may be expressing OFG better than OFG has expressed himself. In any event, I feel certain that the importance of the long-term view remains, else we will once again get the result OFG bemoans. Being optimistic about the quantum leap does not enable one to succcessfully make the quantum leap, IMO, one actually requires a plan that can be made to work step-by-step. And we don’t seem to have one. [ ] As I head for bed, I can’t resist observing that one must have a care that when one is grasping what one presumes to be the elephant’s trunk, one must remain cautiously aware of the possibility that what one is grasping may in fact be connected to Uncle lolol. Sweet dreams to all you lovelies. :-)

  10. I already mentioned this story on one of the other threads (yes, thanks wendye – I saw and really enjoyed that video, found Herald pics of the various demonstrations as well, and somewhere here I’ve linked to the Palmerston North kafuffle) – oops, as I was saying, this story, this one:

    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/07/31-0

    From a different news outlet, so this is more complete than what I posted earlier, and good on McClatchy is all I can say.

  11. good, juliania; now it’s mcclatchy news that’s outraged. it will keep the momentum building, as it did with the AP. he may have to cough up the documents, eh?

    rc: i just don’t think there is anything that will guarantee permanent success in the future, but whether or not ofg was reading here or what, he did add three new comments to this post over yonder. i did the best i could with very limited time.

    but as to the trunk, this advice from the Fifty Shades of Red Fire Brigade in the UK may be useful advice for you and Uncle: ‘Do try not to get your penis stuck in a toaster.’ it does sound like good advice to me, even not being the proud owner of a penis, of course. ;-)

    randolph scott???? reminds me of the chorus in Blazing saddles, lol. but re: bum steers, calves and lambs with no mummies to feed them are called bummers. feeding one every so many hours by bottle is…er…hellish.

  12. BTW, juliania, my apologies for not picking up on this earlier. but you are spot on in citing Nixon- that high-visibility absolution of serious criminality set the template for all the non-accountability that has followed. I had just completed a course on the philosophy of Law and Morals at the time, and knew immediately that the example being set would haunt us forever after-why shoiuld those lower on the totem pole obey any laws after seeing that the top guys, the ones who should be the best exemplars, thought the law was a joke? We have been descending ever since. I say again, strong punishment is a necessary component of suppressing and correcting bad behavior. We must get back to that harsh but true reality.

  13. Here’s as close as I can get to the original Sunday Star Times article – looks pretty much like it:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8972743/US-spy-agencies-eavesdrop-on-Kiwi

    Just also read the bio of the author, Nicky Hager. Impressive.

  14. toaster envy, eh? herr dokto freud warned us about people like you. ;-)

    you and juliania may blame the start of supper-inaccountability on gerald ford, but me? i blame chevy chase.

    “strong punishment is a necessary component of suppressing and correcting bad behavior. We must get back to that harsh but true reality.” take the death penalty out of punishment, and i couldn’t agree more.

    i did have a long and great email from christopher pedro, who is well, busy, pesky as ever. i haven’t had time to answer him yet,. but he’s still in the states.

    • Er, the comedian, or the town? I don’t really think it’s fair to put all the blame on either of them. IOW, I prefer Ford to Chevy lol. [ ] Punishment is key, I don’t have to have the death penalty-enough to maroon them on a desert island, and make them deal with and ultimately eat each other. [ } I miss Chris, what can you share with us? Love and hugs to you Chris, if you’re reading this. [ ] Welcome on the GG link, everybody got it even w/o my help lol. A good thing. Man, have they ever been lying to us! The only thing they are not collecting is a dingleberry count. The desert island for all GG attackers, as far as I’m concerned. Of course he’s risking a lot, as did Manning and Snowden. I have only contempt for snivelling fools who would dare criticize those who take such risks for the general welfare and survival of basic democracy. Re that, just Giggle “Toobin Greenwald” and keep your vomit bag handy I still think it would be good to see lots of dead people, like that obnoxious little kid in The Sixth Sense. (Good thing I’m anonymous lol.) [ ] Hope you are soaking up lots of grandbaby love, darlin’, did I mention I got close to muskrat love last Saturday ? (Don’t worry, no flat-tail stuff-ewww!!!)

  15. oh, and thank you for the Xkeyscore link. i’ve only scanned it, but it looks juicy enough. those who use glenn’s not calling for an end to the entire program are starting to irk me. and to further claim that his not having done so is evidence that: a) it proves their ‘limited hangout’ theory of him and edward snowden, and b) proves that all libertarians are all only interested in businesses having free reign to run free…is sincerely strange.

    do they really not think that glenn fears for his life? or that the attorneys at the guardian aren’t calling the shots on some of the publications? yes, all both snowden and greenwald have said is that they wanted citizens to have conversations about the nsa, but i reckon he believes it’s up to us now.

    jane hamsher’s diary on obomba’s visit to dems on the hill causing alan grayson to cancel the hearing featuring ‘critics of the nsa programs’ is a bit hard to read at this point. grayson really seems like another empty suit playin’ both sides of the issue to me, just like on *not* saying what the TPP chapters he read said.

  16. Speaking of Chevy Chase, grab yourselves a strong cuppa tea (my fave is gunpowder green) and just plain enjoy the following:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10906252

  17. Um, I think we just might be excluded from the Five Eyes tearoom in future, so wendye’s cafe is gonna be where it’s at, surveillancey speaking.

    • Um, why is it, darling juliania, that I can giggle about it happening over there, but I want to see somebody burn when I hear about it happening over here? I’d hate to think I was discriminating about the problems of halflings lol. [ ] But, SRSLY, notice how all the snoopers are unanimous in wanting to have the ability to use evidence of criminality that they “inadvertently” uncover as they are protecting us from nation-endangering terrists?

  18. yes, once i saw the newest gg link through email, i did check the front page at fdl and had seen ds wright had it up (wonder of wonders). yeah, but chevy making such sport of his clumsiness may have overly-sensitized ford to nixon’s self-authored ‘plight’, and tra la la, eh? ;-)

    me, i’m a jeep gurl through circumstance. chris did say that he’d almost quipped on my ‘remote access to auto functions’ post that he was glad he drives an ’87 (something) car.

    yes, those accusers of snowden and greenwald are at fdl, including chePasa and my dear friend the good minister soral. i just don’t see the logic, but maybe…it’s false logic, based on flawed premises, eh?

    sorry i won’t be able to read many of the links, juliania, at least for the next week or so. little boys are keepin’ me hoppin’. a wonderful sort of exhaustion, and rory and veh will be here friday night for a few days. sublime.

  19. No worries, wendye. And Anonymous, I giggle too, because kiwis are a bit, shall I say, amateur at this spy stuff and it shows. We haven’t had any spies since the Frenchies – not that we know about anyway. And they got nabbed, not by nifty surveillance, unless you count the locals up north who figured out those caravaners with the accents might just be the ones everyone was looking for.

    Those were the days.

    Yay for grandkids everywhere! Enjoy!

  20. ‘the king was in the garden picking flowers for a friend who came to play’…

    cry baby cry from the beatles’ white album covered by #theCCC on acme.records :
    http://acmeartscollective.com/acmerecords/2013/07/29/cry-baby-cry-covered-by-the-civilian-conservation-corps/
    also:
    verbatim 37.5 at #thedemise :
    http://acmeartscollective.com/thedemise/2013/08/03/verbatim-37-5/

    ‘resolve yourself to evolve yourself. evolution, revolution.’
    g.singlaub

  21. I’m plastering this all over, so might as well put it here as well. Seems to come up with Bush’s visage, but don’t let that put you off. He’s very briefly in the mix. Rather, there’s a catchy song and crazy kiwi flitting around making a serious point with humour. (Yes, spellcheck, that is how you spell it.)

  22. Minister Sorals

    My fragrant orange peel,
    I think those invested in the performance of Glennzilla should not censor those who look at the shoddy stage he performs on and suspect much is missing. Sometimes you get a pinch overzealous.

    Now, please tell Glenn that when he’s gonna bring great balls of lightning down on the OTB (letter shift code), a la Rubin levitating the Pentagroan, I’ll be there, full moon and all.

    Love,
    Comrade X

  23. thank you for the good cover, acmerecords; i’d forgotten the song. and for the ‘verbatim’, too.

    the song lost me a bit, juliania, but i’ll listen without watching once, see if his movements are just too distracting for my brain. ;~)

    ‘allo, comrade x; thanks for coming by. but ‘OTB (letter shift code)’; wot is this? not ‘off track betting’, i reckon… ;-) (i do love ‘pentagroan’, though, lol, and yes, we need more jerry rubins…

    by my reckoning, you hadn’t made a single point in your obscure needlings: that was what i’d objected to; i’d begun to wonder if you weren’t just having a sincerely bad week or something, and i reckoned getting rapped by a friend might help focus your communication a bit.

    you and che seem to agree with arthur silber and his angry denunciations of greenwald as a corporate gatekeeper. i do understand, as i grasp sterling’s wry critique of the Big Three. but for me, all these revelations (specifically documentable evidence, is heady in its import for a couple reasons. one is that it may provide a serious tipping point for massive dissent in this nation and globally. the other is that the bolivarian nations are uniting against the usa’s criminal treatment of them (and the world now sees that the eu nations are satellites of the us).

    dunno if we’ll see greenwald call for such, nor do i know if that’s even a valid request to make of him. anyhoo, i’m meandering; the wee ones are up chattering, playing their electronic devices, and fizzing with my brain. love to you, dear. wd.

  24. Well, it’s a very simple song, wendye – but don’t bother if it makes you dizzy.

    The point it makes is important, however, in that while New Zealand may seem hardly worth noticing, it is a case of location, location, location. And the song, verified by other articles I have read, including Glenn Greenwald’s, makes the case that those satellite dishes covered in white kevlar are essential to the beaming of information from war zones like Afghanistan to the drone and other military bases that form the network enabling this country to bomb long distance as wikileaks and Bradley Manning have disclosed. I think that’s a bit more important than just hobbits, and to me explains why the US is so interested in that little country. Without such monitoring, the military goes back to being localized and it is harder to target stuff. You need that southern hemispheric location to bounce the signal. New Zealand is like the backboard for tennis practice when there’s only one player, the US.

    So, not just the eavesdropping, which did get people’s attention, but also the military expertise for droning – I think that’s hugely important.

    Sorry you don’t seem to get it, but it is maybe easier for me being a native. And I’m pretty sure young ‘uns in New Zealand are getting it too – the latest spy program articles in the Herald have hugely grown in the comment field from just a trickle to a veritable flood, considering the size of the readership involved. That’s very heartening.

  25. This might help:

    http://www.converge.org.nz/abc/pr37-168a.htm

    Obviously, I really haven’t known about all this – it hasn’t surfaced online where I could see it, but I’m happy to start backtracking and learning. Not all hobbits down there by any means – or perhaps these are the real ones.

    And for any who might be interested, Waihopai was authorized under the last National prime minister, a real tyrant, Muldoon, in 1977. I sure do remember him. (Sadly, in his declining years, my own father loved Muldoon.)

  26. Minister Sorals

    “a serious tipping point for massive dissent”. Even if it were INTO massive dissent, which it is being deflected away from, the culture to support that is gone, fragmented, blowin’ in the wind. Contrast the lawyer to the yippie.

    Optimism of the will, pessimism of the intellect, comrade.

  27. well i tried again without watching, and still can’t understand it, so yes, the link helped, but so did googling the facility, and the term ‘radome’ as part of the Echelon program. ‘Radomes’ can capture satellite communications, which tech capability kinda knocks me out (being very tech-illiterate).

    googling the Waihopai Station facility wiki provided the fact that in 2008 (iirc) some pesky devils broke through a series of fences and used a machete to slit a radome, deflating the sucker. interestingly enough, a jury found them not guilty. good on the kiwis, eh?

  28. (my modem died yesterday afternoon just as i tried to submit this comment. dunno why, but when i checked (just in case) this morning, i could at least use my firefox (a strange version, but nonetheless…), although not my email provider/internet explorer. weird. i’ll try to order a new modem right now, because something’s wrong. if it dies again, it’ll likely be a few days until it gets here, and i’ll be awol.) ;-)

    see now, minister sorals? i’m not even sure what: “Optimism of the will, pessimism of the intellect, comrade” means. if it’s akin to another friend at fdl implying i am one rock in a box of them, i can live with it, lol.

    but yes; i may simply be reading too much propaganda at popular resistance and elsewhere, and have been infected by the notion that nonviolent revolution is all that’s left to us. i collected links for another ‘how to start a revolution’ diary (with an interesting, at least, video).

    i read sterling’s ‘ecuadorian library’ again, having forgotten a lot of it over the few days since…yesterday? and i do think he made a good point that few will really want to dismantle all the technological devices that hoover up every piece of communication data, but i do think he goes too far accusing all tech freedom folks of the same thing. i worry more about the *likelihood* that it can all be killed and buried; who would know, really? ‘Panopticon: the last stage of a dying empire, just ahead of total capitalist collapse’, someone said. was it norman pollack? i forget, but i know i never finished the piece, although i know i should.

    so much homework, so little time… oh, but the other thing i meant to tell you was that those folks over yonder were about to hang you as a troll, and i did try to prevent that. ;-)

    love,
    miz rock

  29. Minister Sorals

    Yes, professor Beall, early on, tried out the idea that FDL may not be his kind of place because he couldn’t brook the comrade’s ambiguity. I did admire his escape from the physics cult but that intolerance warranted multiple demerits. “Thank you for your opinion”. Ugh, deadly polite that is.

    Anyway, they did the deed and comrade Sinister Morals must resurrect once again. The Barbarian quoted “Capitalism is fraud” just before the minister’s execution, so he rests in peace.

    “Optimism of the will, … comrade” means I can doubt and support at the same time. Otherwise you wouldn’t be hearing from Comrade X.

    What I got from the “Ecuadoran Library”, and I must allow for his ambiguity, is that the icons of digital dissidence have their immortality secure and the Empire will decay, some day. I’m not sure why he was so uplifted, though, as the history of Christianity is not encouraging.

    May I trouble you again, dear miz rock(?)

  30. Minister Sorals

    Ha ha! Sentient and insane – “Insanity — a perfectly rational adjustment to an insane world.”

    Subvert the Singularity.

  31. ‘ambiguity’; thank you, that’s another good word i’d forgotten, Minister. but please: why can’t you communicate like you just did here? the other way seriously makes my brain ache. i might now be able to extrapolate how ‘pessimism of the intellect’ fits in.

    barbarian got mega-chuffed when i told him last week on his then current thread that you’d been banned. i’d thought that as he was a communist, you were allies, he’d want to know. but…it appears not to be so; he’d tried to out you then as well. i just don’t get some of this online swordplay, i guess.

    re: insanity: i’ve been mulling a diary with this song to anchor it, sinister morals (quite funny, and i never saw it):

  32. bruce dixon has a good piece up about the reuters piece about the dea task force getting funneled tips to use for drug busts, and advising everyone to hide the source of the tips from judges, defendants and their attorneys; major ugly lies concerning what the surveillance state is really about.

    NSA, DEA and Local Cops Share Information Concealed From Judges & Defendants, But No Liberal Outrage

    The racist and hypocritical and failed war on terror has something in common with the racist, hypocritical and failed war on drugs. I mean, something new, not merely that they’re both based on lies to propagate public fear, or that they’re both great white holes politicians of both parties can shove billions of dollars into, making contractors wealthy and their own jobs secure.

    A Monday morning Reuters news story confirms that the NSA shares unknown quantities of its vacuum cleaner surveillance of every American’s electronic communications and whereabouts with the federal Drug Enforcement Administration, which duly passes it on to thousands of state and local police agencies in every jurisdiction.

    Just as the power-mad generals at NSA pretends that everything they do is perfectly legal, DEA spokespeople also assure us that no laws are broken, even though their own manuals counsel local police to lie about their sources of information, and instruct them, where possible to fogey up so-called “reconstructive investigations” to yield material usable in court and free from annoying exculpatory evidence.

    The information pipeline between the NSA, the DEA, your local police departments and assorted contractors is not overseen, even by legislators sworn to secrecy or clandestine courts. All oversight is in the hands of the Drug Enforcement Administration, a federal agencyt created for the express purpose of publicizing, politicizing and prosecuting the failed 40 years war on drugs. Given this complete lack of oversight, can we even begin to take seriously their declarations about the limits the information they pass on and the uses they put it to?

    If the Bush-Cheney gang were still in the White House, the assurances of NSA generals and DEA cops, along with purported inquiries into the legality of these practices by a Department of Justice which recently pronounced that being profiled at a White House “Terror Tuesday” meetings was all the “due process” required before summary execution by drone – these assurances would be met with a relentless storm of disbelief and ridicule.

    But in the upside down universe of liberals in this, the age of Obama, violations of due process, mass incarceration, vacuum cleaner surveillance of the digital lives and correspondence of all Americans, and passing the results of this unconstitutional surveillance on to local police are beneath the notice of black and white Democrats, and unworthy of comment, even by black leaders who claim to oppose mass incarceration.

    It may have taken the Bush-Cheney gang to initiate the so-called War on Terror. But only Barack Obama., only a black Democrat in the White House could make it OK in the eyes of black and white liberals to bring that war home in the forms of border walls, universal surveillance, and the sharing of that surveillance data with local cops who conceal its origin at the same time they claim that everything they do is legal. And nobody even laughs.”

  33. Minister Sorals

    Tears for Fears was magical back when. Please write your diary in the mood of that song.

    Barbarian is not a commie, or at least he fears to admit it.

    Only comrade foggy gave a hint that he saw ‘sinister morals’. A second level of decoding to sinestre – contrary, unfavorable, to the left – is required for getting to my intent. I amuse myself imagining that progressives are often incensed to be looked down upon while they look down upon wingnuts. Sorry, the FDL crowd is not congenial to a lefty like me. I also enjoy writing enigmatically/ambiguously.

    This white man world strives for insanity.

  34. just listened to ‘everybody wants to rule the world’; i remember at least shades of it. dunno; not music that sings to me. the gary jules is reminiscent of my early life, so it may be a bit too personal to write…as an overarching theme. we’ll see.

    barbarian has said many times that he’s ‘a trotskyite, and worships the laughing buddha’. whoosh; the grumpulous buddha, more like. but trotskyite is commie, no? in any event, your brand of commie code-talking you may have tried to explain here, but…i don’t comprehend, nor do many, even if we wish to. foggy?

    hmmm. yesterday i’d said to mr. wd that on ofg’s thread you, he, and more than ever, barbarian…were now avowed enemies. that’s how inscrutable you are to me, dear. all of which ‘amusing yourself’ stuff is just games to you, and leaves me wondering what pleases you, encourages you, allows you to look forward to greeting a new day, for instance.

    for some several reasons, autism has been in my sights the past few days, and has caused me to wonder about the various ways brains experience…what they perceive, (deleted: well, never mind; it was getting to personal about my own mind/perceptions/pings/oddities…)

    not sure what your final sentence means, but it does remind me how many white people want, and are advised for whole lifetimes, to be ‘normal’ (meaning acceptable). and yet, some of us never did fit in; both a blessing and a curse. such silence i lived in, so many secret fears, beliefs, questions; too many books, books, books both keeping me sane, and not, lol.

    ah, well. just one old crone wondering what’s ahead. but for now: i really don’t feel like posting at fdl. how moribund and factionalized it’s become. sleep well.

  35. Minister Sorals

    OFG and Barbarian and Comrade X, enemies? I think Ole Barbarian was malinterpreting to one-up the minister, to emphasize his own sympathetic side. I can tolerate Barbarian bullshit. OFG has drunk too deeply of his society’s individualism. Some individuals are incorrigible, some opportunist, some predatory, sure, but this society is constructed on a fraudulent religion and vast numbers of people are entrained in that bullshit. I didn’t see that OFG went after me and I wasn’t going after OFG. So I am not troubled by your assessment.

    Ole Barbarian: “I don’t consider myself a Trotskyite, but sometimes I sure do like those Trotskyite editorials over at the World Socialist Web Site.” Have I missed some double-talk from the Barbarian?

    By “comrade foggy” I mean defogger, the arrogant, “broken glass” intellectual ”gymnast” who’s often foggy in his expression and used to consistently abuse punctuation.

    O fugg, I don’t want to go into my other amusements. I do look forward to the communist takeover at pwoggie FDL – Barbarian now quotes “capitalism is fraud” and cmauk just tonight has made a great stride.

    O yes, we are not of one variety of mental experience. That opportunistic bougie rationality wants to be real, kingly, above all other varieties. My primary inspiration in my last sentence is that the white monster’s fraud cultivates insanity, the better to exploit.

    FDL is in a rut for the most part and, to me, to a great part due to it’s foundation on pwoggie politics.

    Added: Yes, insanity in the sense of unhealthy, contorted, abused, minds.

  36. when i read this comment on email, i wondered how you read it so wrong; turns out i left out the crucial word ‘my’ in the enemies mix. no, not yours, just mine is what i’d meant. dunno foggy, i almost never read on the front page threads. too many one-off comments escalating over the previous. boring. at least at the ghetto end we have more in the way of discussions, or at least used to.

    i think many of the non-bots at my.fdl are trending more socialist, but i reckon not communist. the diary i put up some time ago on the meanings, differences, etc. went okay, but i confess i didn’t learn a whole lot, although many commenters wanted to show their stuff, lol. i’m increasingly tired of testosterone, just as an aside. ;-)

    yeah, ob does go back and forth on what stripe he calls himself; i’d forgotten. but i’d thought you and he had a natural affinity. cmauk’s hard for me to read, but i will watch that trnn video. i’ve liked some of his stuff at counterpunch. most of the ‘socialists’ are major richard wolff acolytes; kinda wished i found him inspirational. he was apparently on bill moyers show again this week. i tried doing southern dragon’s wolff classes, but…i flunked out. (they were the most awful, tinny videos)

    my take would be that as many of us are beginning to see what capitalism has wrought, and was explicitly designed to create, poking people in the eye ain’t much of a way to teach, especially when almost no one can divine your meaning. but that’s just me, comrade X. it’s all entertainment for you, for some of us it (goofily enough) is about creating a better world, no matter how great the odds against that seem to be.

    i used to like bill purdue’s diaries, but he’s gone now. i reckon partially it was because commenters discovered that he was a ‘never give uh inch’ kind of guy, and began staying away. or he gave up on us in disgust, lol.

    if the eurythmics’ le sinestre wasn’t on target, i’ll delete it, save some bandwidth. i dinnae like it in any event.

    • Just wanna say, I’m glad to see the good Minister here, always room for another alive mind. I’ve enjoyed all your personae, good sir, from the beginning. I also find you too cryptic for my understanding at times, but I don’t think it’s your job to lead me all the way down every thought pathway, sometimes it’s good enough that you alert me to the fact that there is a pathway to be explored. I do wonder sometimes, though, what delightful exchanges might result if you put more energy into making your thoughts clearer. In any event, I am always on your side against any censor-wannabees; that they found us both intolerable may be a good sign lol.

  37. (he only comes for the soul food, lol.) yes, a good welcome, but my thing is: directional signposts are welcome. ones like ‘slippery when wet’ aren’t
    altogether helpful. that, by the by, is my astrological sign… ;-)

    and look at you: you signed in! well done, dear!

    • Your sign is “Slippery when wet’? I thought that was everybody’s sign. [ ] Whaddaya meean I signed in? Somebody musta stole my identity! Fuck it, they can have it lol.

  38. they can keep it…as long as they pay yer bills, too, eh?

    uncle said this is your sign, but he may be lyin’….i dunno.

  39. *Canadian* smokey said it, darlin’. the sign omitted to indicated that immediately afterward he’d said, ‘ooopsie; so sorry’. i reckon a bear does, but that’s just a guess after lookin’ at their scat here that’s full of big ol’ plum pits. ouch and a half…

    the grandbabbies found bear sign under the pear tree, but it must have proven too inhospitable to climb…and ruin. they’ve destroyed most of our plum trees, a few others, scratchin’ the bark off the trunks, then climbin’ and breakin’ the branches, the fatheads. we shake fruit down for em, but, oh no…gotta pluck em off themselves. short-sighted: their plum source here is dwindlin’. ;-)

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