‘As Libya Burns, Remember Who Lit the Fires’

A short film by New Eastern Outlook (neo.org)..  I ran into it earlier, and reckoned it would be  good placeholder for moar war and peace (?) news until I can get  my next diary ready (it’s only been in the works for six days).  In other words, contribute as you will...Aleppo?  Mosul victory?…Somalia?  too many locales, no?

From today, Oct, 17:

Daily Mail from AFP: ‘Main forces in post-Kadhafi Liby; A multitude of rival authorities and factions are contesting power amid the anarchy that has gripped Libya since its 2011 revolution which ousted longtime dictator Moamer Kadhafi.  Below is list of the main warring forces.

‘US airstrikes against ISIS in Libya doubled in less than a month’ Fox news

Via Reuters: ‘U.S. air strikes pound Libya’s Sirte to oust Islamic State militants’

“Probably failing to plan for the day after what I think was the right thing to do in intervening in Libya,” Obama told the Fox News channel in an interview broadcast on Sunday, commenting on his worst mistake during two presidential terms.”

OBAMA:  Exactly. Another good example of that is the situation in Syria, which haunts me constantly. I would say of all the things that have happened during the course of my presidency the knowledge that you have hundreds of thousands of people who have been killed, millions who have been displaced, [makes me] ask myself what might I have done differently along the course of the last five, six years.

The conventional arguments about what could have been done are wrong. The notion that if we had provided some more modest arms to Syrian rebels—that somehow that would have led to [Syrian president Bashar al-] Assad’s overthrow more decisively. The notion that if I had taken a pinprick strike when the chemical-weapons issue came out, as opposed to negotiating and getting all those chemical weapons out—that that would have been decisive. All those things I tend to be skeptical about.”

Just cuz I’d seen this on Twitter in the #Podesta emails hashtag, dunno what it even means, to say the truth:

trump-pheasant

43 responses to “‘As Libya Burns, Remember Who Lit the Fires’

  1. Does the O’Bummer-Meister regret AlQuaeda? Hell no, no regrets from ZBigster; hegemonsters cannot afford regrets. The ZBigster-Sklave only added barack-handed regret to the hegemonster repertoire.

    • …We had / saw a fabulous ‘ la bella luna ‘ this past Saturday night which was strikingly beautiful in the late dusk/early night sky over the eastern horizon amidst the passing clouds …a planetary visual favorite for me ..;-) …I mentioned to my companion such a large, luminous moon in October was sometimes called a ‘ Harvest Moon ‘ being it shone so brightly which in the olden pre electricity epoch helped the rural agrarian farm folk / villagers with bringing in the autumnal harvest(s) …
      ….I then elaborated somemore upon the topic of la luna bella to my companion that such a large, luminous orb in the October autumn night sky could also be called a ‘ Witches Moon ‘ by virtue of how the night sky clouds sometimes look like air bound witchfolk passing thru/across the night sky beneath the moon when it takes on such a visual aspect …my companion thought I had just made that up ..;-) …perhaps so but as fables and myths go it is fun to imagine it being so …Harvest Moon …Witches Moon …and of course ‘ Allegheny Moon ‘ the big 1950’s hit song for Patti Page ( if my 1950’s pop music memory chip is serving me well ) ..;-)

      ….la bella luna indeed wd …;-) ….sta

      • …Went and did a quick look – see – listen hop over to UTubeLand and found a vintage 1958 video ( a live TV performance perhaps ?? ) of Patti Page singing ‘ Alleghny Moon ‘ from UTube contributor/poster Swan2612 …Patti Page ‘ Allegheny Moon ‘ 33K views …from 3 years ago … a worthy vid to take a look and listen too…;-) sta

      • la luna bella does look full before the due date, doesn’t she? the supermoon (so close to this blue green ball) wasn’t as large as some moon rises over menefee mountain next to us, but i expect that if there’s a bit of moisture in the air, it magnifies it a bit…or more than a bit. ‘witch’s moon’ reminds me of some halloween decorations. ;-)

        and i dug up patti’s allegheney moon; looks like to me. purdy funny, i’d just heard rosemary clooney’s ‘come on to my house’ earlier. fancy what the ancients thought of lunar and solar eclipses…. glad to hear you can see the moon where you and companion live; can you see the milky way as well?

        • hi wd…

          …Unfortunately where we currently dwell there is a large amount of street and parking lot night time light pollution/light trespass being it is a more urbanized locale …In fact I was recently prompted to get in touch with the local city regime to inquire about why a newly replaced/installed streetlight lamp just down the street was brighter and cast an even more orangish glow up and down the street…After speaking with three city “public works officials” I had completed one full circle of Not My Responsibility evasion(s) and over the phone verbal Going To Pass The Buck sliding around…

          …Evidently the decision/action taken to install this brighter, more orangier (sp?) street light was amazingly not made by anyone who works for and collects a paycheck from the city — at least not in any way definitively knowable or accountable when quizzed as to why this needlessly bright street light had been installed …Or why it cannot be downgraded from prison yard / USAF air base lighting intensity to that of a residential zoned street intensity….all things considered it just becomes an ongoing hmmmm moment…

          ….I have discovered there is a large body of YouTube vids about/on this topic of night sky light pollution/trespass and taking back/bringing back the night sky filled with starlight and not the glow of manmade night time light …Excessive and poorly designed night outside illumination is unnatural and unhealthy for man and creature alike…hmmm…imagine that …Plus it cost more money to to install, maintain and run all this excessive night time lighting…

          …I am not holding my breath regarding the needlessly too bright street light down the street being corrected or replaced anytime soon … I will practice being more pragmatic in the meanwhile…

          …We were recently able to make a trip to and visit very scenic Spearfish Canyon which is in far western SD near Lead and Deadwood SD where the night sky views of the stars above were incredibly vivid..;-) … I think I was able to identify Orion’s Belt and perhaps may have seen the Milky Way as well tho unable to specifically ID it as being so …maybe even saw that ” must be another planet ” that so often figures in my political musings and imaginings these days…imagine that..;-) …sta

          • ugh; that sounds like a mercury vapor light, ugly as hell: mordor-like. but safety!!! i love orion to bits, and it’s funny that mr. wd and i see it so differently, too long to explain. but the milky way in the night sky: one is looking through the edge of our galaxy, and in different seasons thru one arm or t’other of the pretty flat disc comprised of billions upon billions of stars, moons and planets. and fancy that astronomers have updated the number of galaxies into the thousands of billions, or really…recently more than that, iirc; numbers that large are hard for me to even imagine.

            space.com says “The best time of the year to see the Milky Way is during the late summer and early fall, when its brightest portions run from the southwest to the northeast parts of the sky and arch nearly overhead.”

            given our planet’s movement, it seems as though our galaxy wheels around, and yes, at certain times it’s on the horizon out of sight. but this is one of my favorite images, seem from monument valley, utah. if it embeds too large, i’ll link to it instead.

        • …that is the vid I had referenced wd…thanx for showcasing it here at cafe-b…Patti Page had a good many songs in her songbook that were popular …I always liked how well she sang and sounded…another Patti Page favorite is ‘Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte’ which showcased her fine singing voice very well…;-)

          …What befell Libya back in 2011 was tragic …whatever sins M. Gadhaffi was alleged to have done or in fact had done were surely no worse than what several USA Presidents have instigated, signed off on and condoned…It is ludicrous for USian Empire to be going around Planet Earth declaring who is good and bad or who should be regime changed or killed ( murdered ) just on USian Empire’s say and whim …

          …Meanwhile the likes of W.J.Clinton, G.W.Bush or B.H.Obama and the orcs who circle around them bathe in pathetic political /ethical /moral hypocrisy and then clothe themselves with Big Lies and false pretenses of being righteous.

          B.H.Obama has demonstrated fully and beyond doubt that he is a perfidious warmonger and warcriminal. As Exhibit #1 for this being so see post 2011 Libya. The contempt B.H.Obama holds for common human beings here in the USA and around the planet is in plain view. With B.H.Obama now advocating for corrupt and likely criminal actor HRClinton to follow him into the WH it should be blindingly obvious to anyone paying minimal attention that the rot in WashDC has gone to the very middle of WashDC.

          • it’s not by accident that the US isn’t a signatory to the ICC nor the Rome statute itself, iirc, is it? nor that prez peace prize wanted to ‘look forward, not backward’ in regard to bush war crimes, is it? planning ahead: always pragmatic. ;-) but yeah, they all make one want to take a shower thinking about them. for me, rumsfeld even more than…yanno..

  2. Al Jazeera first showed the fires being lit. And embedded a bunch of British reporters (Ayman Moyeldin of US got his start with Tahrir Square on Al Jazeera). The first campaign out of Benghazi got short of Sirte before Gadhafi ordered out his full military force instead of mercenaries and technicals.

    • the AJ logo is certainly first up; are you saying that NEO just added their own twists to the video, then? and that it contains factual errors (not to be a thickwit once again)?

      • No. Just pointing out how many people (me included) did not connect AJ’s extensive coverage of Tahrir, Libya, and Syria with what seems likely a Moslem Brotherhood push for power and a US desire to take the pressure building against Mubarak out of Egyptian politics if only temporarily to prevent chaos in a nation of 80 million.

        The US media was not effectively covering Tahrir; a lot of people gravitated to AJ because it was in English. The probability of any historical clip containing an AJ logo was very high just because of that.

        Like most historical events, I think we will go through multiple rounds of sorting out what went on as more documentary material becomes available and as analysts reconsider some of the early judgements.

        Heads of state, militaries, and politicians — and to some extent nations — within the region do independently conduct their foreign and domestic policies and propaganda operations no matter how constrained they might be by a hegemon.

        It is also the case that hegemons can be played by their subjugated states.

        • thanks for the explanation; i see it all save that i need to ask you for more on this: “It is also the case that hegemons can be played by their subjugated states”. also, was i correct that it was you who’d opined that Obama is good at compartmentalization, thus…etc.” i didn’t mean to put words in your mouth in error, i was simply trying to present a counter (or tangential) argument.

          i’m watching/reading various reports from and about ‘clearing mosul of is/daesh’, and all of it seems too, too grim. the news from wikileaks’ server being silenced is also a very dangerous omen. waiting is, i guess.

          • 9 hrs ago:

            awesome anti-trump graphic in the subtweets.

          • Our “allies” in the Middle East use the power of their relationships with the US and its military to get the US to do what it might not do if there was not the relationship–use the US military against its identified enemies. There is wiggle room and strategy employed by the subjugated to get some limited benefits out of the hegemon.

            Mosul is likely to be more grim than any other siege to remove Daesh/ISIL/ISIS just because the large number of people still there of the pre-2003 population of 2 million. But Daesh/ISIL/ISIS never held all of it to adminster; there is that.

            From the perspective of the US, the most difficult part will be ensuring that Daesh/ISIL/ISIS does not relocate somewhere else. On that there is agreement with Russia; Turkey is the wildcard on this issue.

            What Wikileaks did was show that absolutely no government in the world likes its internal operations and motives be exposed to its own public — least of all the so-called open societies, such as the United States of America. “Collateral Murder” was not received as accountability for two kill-crazy gunship pilots but as an attack on the US military, requiring retaliation on the attackers – Chelsea Manning and Wikileaks’s stated head Julian Assange. The released US cables sent Obama and Clinton over the edge in thinking of retaliation against these two, even though most of the cables were were workaday stuff like briefings for visiting dignitaries to particular countries, or at most merely embarrassing. Interesting about Kerry wanting Wikileaks silenced during the FARC negotiations. From his perspective, it makes sense. You don’t want out-of-the-blue information to screw up careful negotiations.

            • i see now what you’d meant. ‘subjugated states’ equals ‘client states’, in effect, then. lotta tits for tats. i agree that the cables lacked one yuge category: art. imagine if there’s been more visuals on the order of ‘collateral murder’; but yes, many mundane yawn cables.

              given that O’s big mission was to ‘clear mosul of the acronyms’, i suspect i’m cynical enough that declaring some sort of ‘mission accomplished’ might be at hand. as w/ libya: ‘how did i know that they’d flee to X and make a salafist state?’

              as to kerry and the timing, i’m trying to buy your theory on screwing up negotiations, but wikileaks on the timing noted that it wasn’t until after they leaked the full texts of the queens secret speeches. on the other hand, when assange tweeted those codes some called ‘dead man’s switches’, one of the categories was ‘kerry’, mebbe one was ‘ecuador’, but i can’t be certain. but some folks said that no, the protocols were enacted so that no one could change the extant emails.

              the guardian has a long long piece up today that included this tweet:

              the ministers felt the need to say this: “Ecuador’s foreign policy responds to sovereign decisions alone and does not yield to pressure from other states.” carrots, sticks…

              on edit: i checked, and yes; ‘precommitment 1, 2, and 3: UK FCO, kerry, and ecuador’ contingency plans. beat me. ;-)

  3. Talk about cold-blooded; the liar in chief lacks all compassion (look up the definition of psycopath).
    Look at Orwell’s map of the world in 1984; it’s uncanny how close it is to our world today;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nations_of_Nineteen_Eighty-Four#/media/File:1984_fictitious_world_map_v2_quad.svg

    • Not to mention empathy; totally MIA.

    • at present, there may be more ‘disputed’ areas, no? but yes, uncanny, v arnold. it may have been in that interview mutual blow job O did with doris kearns godwin (at the link) for VF that he wanted to show how desperately he grieves for those GIs he sends into ‘harms way’. he sure wants that to be part of his legacy, doesn’t he?

      i forget the differences between psychopath and sociopath, but either work for me. how and when a conscience develops or devolves/disappears is disputed, of course, but it sure did take a black democrat prez to wreak so much destruction on black and brown people all over the globe w/ almost no complaints from the librul (putative) ‘left’.

      tarheeldem posited recently that O is rather a master at compartmentalization, iirc, and that quality was part of the reason he was vetted and found to be a brilliant choice to be our nation’s con man in chief. again, it’s hard to compare our rulers various levels of darkness and evil, but the Red Queen rides the crest of that wave to me as well.

      and now we know for certain that clinton, therefore O knew who was funding isis, and how the weapons systems we provided to the saudis, and i suppose to israel, were supplying them, which of course is why this bullshit toasted my cookies: “The notion that if we had provided some more modest arms to Syrian rebels—.. ” ha, lemme go grab a great tweet about the ‘moderate rebels’ the US funds and arms.

  4. “Probably failing to plan for the day after what I think was the right thing to do in intervening in Libya,”

    They were careless people, Tom and Daisy—they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made.-Gatsby

    each new morn New widows howl, new orphans cry, new sorrows
    Strike heaven on the face…the real Obama/Cameron/etc. legacy. except the technocratic indifference of these cowardly cutthroats to the flood of terror they have undammed would turn even the Lady Macbeth of Mtensk, Stalin himself, into a green-eyed monster. I can see the old bastard having a chuckle at Cameron’s “this is not about oil.” and at Obama (“if only i could be more humanitarian than i am!”). you can’t put the omelet back into the shells, can you? is he feigning ignorance about what bombs do or is he just that out of touch w/reality?

  5. the final line works to a T: let other clean up the mess they had made’; thank you. but as far as just careless, who’s to say what was O, what was keeping on sec def gates (wth?; oh, and rubin, never mind) if this is so, and it’s only too easy to believe, factor in zbig as gates’ huge cheerleader, deep state, and yada, yada:

    ” 2007 on DN! (does that disqualify it?) ‘this is a memo from upstairs saying after iraq [US was bombing and droning afghanistan soon after his visit w/ rummy and wolfowitz], we’re going to take out seven countries in five years: syria, lebanon, libya, somalia, sudan, and finishing off, iran.’

    yes, he must have chuckled about cameron’s ‘I Promise!’ i seem to have given up on writing a next diary on accounta today again mr. wd is on the greenhouse roof, tearing it off to rebuild a better one. cacophonous, it is, and hard for me to filter out.

    so, i’l go one a bit (NO! not that!). do you remember matt taibbi telling the tale about goldman sucks having invested billions for gadadafi, and pissing all of it away as further incentive for r2p? i can likely dig it up again, but i’d seen a reuter’s piece on a lawsuit …i’ll try to dig it up…more later; somethin’s burning in this confounded oven.

    • reuters had reported on oct. 16: “The outcome of a two-and-a-half-year legal battle between Goldman Sachs and Libya’s $67 billion sovereign fund is a triumph for the Wall Street giant, which was vindicated despite embarrassing revelations about how some of its bankers conducted business. The London High Court found in favor of Goldman Sachs on Friday, with Judge Vivien Rose dismissing the fund’s arguments, made over the course of a bruising seven-week trial.

      While the Libyan Investment Authority (LIA) is likely to appeal, according to a source with knowledge of the matter, the lurid details spilling out of the case mesmerized observers because of the profile of the parties involved and the glimpse they offered into the secretive world of multi-billion-dollar sovereign wealth fund (SWF) investments.” and also that:

      “The fund is potentially an important source of finance for rebuilding Libya after years of war and chaos, but some of its assets have been under U.N. sanctions since the overthrow of ruler Muammar Gaddafi in 2011. A power struggle over the fund is still raging.” and you may remember the first order of bidness for the Queen of Chaos was establishing a central bank, causing me to wonder where in the world of carmen sandiego did all that gold and lucre go?

      taibbi had a hella lot of polemical fun in may of 2011 describing what seems to relate to the LIA lawsuit: ‘Goldman Tries, Fails to Sell Soul With Libya Deal’

      “The LIA, Libya’s sovereign wealth fund, was charmed by the demonstration and decided to go all-in with a $1.5 billion bet. Goldman very quickly lost them 98 percent of that money.
      I never knew it was even possible to lose 98 percent of an investment that quickly. If you sent a blind, three-legged donkey into Caesar’s palace with $1.5 billion in chips, it could probably stay solvent longer than this options package Goldman sold to Qaddafi.

      “Having managed to get their bankers out of Libya with their heads still attached to their shoulders, Goldman decided to make up for losing $1.5 billion of Qaddafi’s money by offering the international pariah a $3.7 billion equity stake that would have made him one of the largest single owners of the bank. [snip]

      In con-man parlance, this is called the reload. You beat someone in a Ponzi scheme for his life’s savings, and when he shows up at your door with an axe, you get him to mortgage his house to buy a stake in the Brooklyn Bridge. After blowing $1.5 billion of Libya’s money almost instantaneously, Goldman’s solution to the problem was to immediately get Qaddafi reaching back into his pocket for a cash sum over twice the size of the original losses. It’s really hard not to admire the sheer balls of the whole deal.” Gadaffi didn’t bite, so he was offered other deals, including a big bundle of CDFs; he apparently didn’t bite on those, either.

  6. re: ‘the Fight for Mosul to Cleanse it of Isis™’:

    robert fisk: October 18, 2016: After Mosul Falls, ISIS will Flee to Syria. Then What?

    “For weeks now, Western media and the American experts it likes to quote have been predicting a Stalingrad-style battle to the death by Isis inside Mosul – or a swift victory over Isis followed by inter-sectarian Iraqi battles for the city. The UN is warning of massive refugee columns streaming from a besieged city. But the Syrians – after witnessing the sudden collapse and evacuation of Palmyra when their own army retook the ancient Syrian city earlier this year – suspect that Isis will simply abandon Mosul and try to reach safety in the areas of Syria which it still controls.”

    “In other words, if Mosul falls, the entire Isis caliphate army could be directed against the Assad government and its allies – a scenario which might cause some satisfaction in Washington.”

    Fisk also references this rather self-contradictory, if i’m reading correctly) military times article that one of my favorite tankies had put up. the authors claim to know who these folks follow:

    “In Baghdad, thousands of followers of an Iraqi Shiite cleric marched in front of the Turkish Embassy on Tuesday demanding the withdrawal of Turkish troops from a base near Mosul. “Get out, Get out, occupier!” and “Yes, yes, for Iraq,” chanted the followers of Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr.” why wouldn’t iraqis want turkey t get out of town?

    b at MOA says pretty much the same thing will happen, adding:
    “The Turks are openly talking about such an escape plan for ISIS in Mosul. The Turkish news agency Anadolu published this “sensitive” operations plan. Point 4 says:
    An escape corridor into Syria will be left for Daesh so they can vacate Mosul.” (with a link and a graphic)

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/10/isis-moves-to-syria-where-erdogan-still-aims-for-aleppo.html

  7. “The genius of Arab satellite TV,” Abderrahim Foukara, Washington bureau chief for Al Jazeera, once told me, “is that it [has] captured a deep-seated common existential pain called Arab sensibility and turned it into a picture narrative that speaks to something very deep in the Arab psyche.”

    Is that an Islamic void?

    “The absence of icons in Islam has not merely a negative but a positive role. By excluding all anthropomorphic images, at least within the religious realm, Islamic art aids man to be entirely himself. Instead of projecting his soul outside himself, he can remain in his ontological centre where he is both the viceregent (khalîfa) and slave (‘abd) of God. Islamic art as a whole aims at creating an ambience which helps man to realize his primordial dignity; it therefore avoids everything that could be an ‘idol’, even in a relative and provisional manner. Nothing must stand between man and the invisible presence of God. Thus Islamic art creates a void; it eliminates in fact all the turmoil and passionate suggestions of the world, and in their stead creates an order that expresses equilibrium, serenity and peace

    Doesn’t it seem that an international Arab broadcaster would be a outstanding venture? The Arab peoples’ satellite TV would require require consummate mediation as it would speak for a diversity of citizens – and whose propaganda does it inject?

    Arab satellite television, such as Al Jazeera — and the increasingly aggressive ethos of Arab print journalism exemplified by newspapers like Egypt’s Al-Masry Al-Youm and Tunisia’s crusading Kalima Tunisie — have fueled a sense of common cause among Arabs across the region every bit as real as the “imagined communities” that are at the core of the concept of nation.

    As Faisal Kasim, host of Al-Ittijah al-Muakis (The Opposite Direction), one of Al Jazeera’s most popular and controversial shows, which often features shouting matches between those representing the region’s most extreme views, put it: “Our media should be harnessed to liberate the Arab people from their internal gladiators.”

    Arab Spring was quite a marketing opportunity:

    According to Anderson, creation of imagined communities became possible because of “print capitalism”.[2] Capitalist entrepreneurs printed their books and media in the vernacular (instead of exclusive script languages, such as Latin) in order to maximize circulation. As a result, readers speaking various local dialects became able to understand each other, and a common discourse emerged. Anderson argued that the first European nation-states were thus formed around their “national print-languages.”

    And guess who’s a partner?

    When the Arab Spring began, Qatar started supporting protest movements (with the exception of those happening in Gulf States), In particular Islamist forces connected to the Muslim Brotherhood. The Qatari government already showed remarkable foresight in this respect back in the 1990s when it began offering refuge to Islamists from all over the world and gave them an international forum through Al Jazeera. The lynchpin of this policy was and continues
    to be the Egyptian scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi. His roots are in the Muslim Brotherhood, and during his exile in Doha in the 1990s he became the world’s most famous and influential Muslim scholar. His
    success was greatly facilitated by Al Jazeera […] A community of exiled Muslim Brothers gradually formed around al-Qaradawi. During the Arab Spring, some of these individuals took on roles as leaders, financial
    backers, religious authorities and politicians […]

    AJ is also essential to political vision of The Emir of Qatar:

    Emir Hamad expressed his convictions using Libya as
    an example: “What is it that turns people into extremists? Extremism is the result of tyrannical, dictatorial governments or leaders [descriptions that according to the emir clearly do not apply to Qatar’s leadership, G.S.[HA HA HA CRax]] who give their people no justice and no security. That is what turns people into extremists. However, if the people can participate in the political process, I am certain that you will see this extremism transform into a civil/civilised (hayat madaniya) life and a civilised society.” What was interesting here was that Emir Hamad
    was not just talking about the Muslim Brotherhood, which even many Western observers consider to be “moderate” – he also expressly included Salafists and al-Qaeda. […] Doha appears to believe that the Muslim Brotherhood and many Salafists represent an interpretation of Islam that is compatible with the Wahhabism that most Qatari citizens follow. It also gives Doha the opportunity to distance itself from
    Saudi Arabia, whose relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood deteriorated sharply in the wake of 9/11. Qatar has every reason to hope that its relationship to countries under Islamist rule will be better than they were under the previous regimes, given the support that it is affording these upcoming powers.

    Demockracy promotion ain’t just an Amurkan opportunity.

  8. maybe OT, but oh the concern on PBS Nooz Whore…alas, notorious human rights violator (wait for it) Eritrea, but no that was just in passing: David Miliband, who like his mentor Tony Blair, is so concerned about the humanitarian needs of Iraq, viz. Mosul, is a busy bee flitting around to suck down that sweet, sweet international aid nectar. You know, for that country he helped destroy. talk about the vital importance of being earnest. they need tents. they need water. they are expecting 125k refugees. but what if there are a *million*??? so sincere. you can help, at the link below:

    https://www.rescue.org/david-miliband Prezzie & CEO.

    anyway, i remember the nooz coverage in the run up to the Libya war. b/c it was the donkeys gorging at the white house trough, Fuchs newz did express a mite of skepticism about that noble endeavor. not quite the gadfly of the state, but they didn’t completely roll over. however, most of it was you know, pachyderm stampeding & trumpeting about trampling over that defiant mouse sitting on heaps of gold & oil, Colonel Q. on the MSDNC/PBS/NPR side, all the usual teared-up, maudlin expressions of concern for the wymynz & chilluns.

    such was the “debate.” Big, nasty, cop brother & Big, weepy, social worker sister. However, both bro & sis agreed that we had to do something about Colonel Q’s porno dungeons & Viagra-infused rape brigades.

    curious that that something always involves bombing & invading. always. newsflash Amurka: whatever brutishness Al Shabab & ISIS & Boko Harem & the Sardakur & Kim Jong whoever are up to, your bombs mostly kill women, children, the elderly, & non-combatant men. or maim them. or make them refugees.

    you think David Miliband knows this?

    • yeah, evil eritrea. thomas mountain calls it ‘the african cuba’. loads of hits on VZ again, including health crisis! three tweets by reuters: ‘microencephaly in VZ, yet no reports of it to authorities!’ fusion teevee is broadcasting leopoldo lopez drool, but no, i dinnae watch.

      sir miliband does seem to be everywhere, dawd save the queen…and the forced migrants. give generously. salve your conscience.

  9. again i’l have to beg off until tomorrow. my online day begins before first light, and what w/ that and being so slow and busy in RL, i’m about done by now. you night owls must have epic stamina. ;-)

    rax: once again i’ll say that those blockquotes you use are unreadable to me, as the italics look bolded, *and* they take up soooo much commenting space. not worth it to me to copy/paste them into a word doc, justify it w/ a readable font, and tra la la. yeppers: it’s surly to bed, likely to be surly to rise for me, so thanks./s.

    to all: is it better to imagine or not? i reckon the former, as should all those who oppose war. ‘limited nuclear war’: a logical fallacy.

    I can see by your coat, my friend you’re from the other side
    There’s just one thing I got to know
    Can you tell me please who won?

    Say can I have some of your purple berries?

    Yes, I’ve been eating them
    For six or seven weeks now haven’t got sick once

    Probably keep us both alive….

    sleep well, dream well if ya gottem.
    ~wd

  10. U.S. Hands Off Syria Coalition — Points of unity statement, liberationnews.org

    • as much as i like the angry arab, somebody needs to sear point 7 below into his brain pan. in a civil war fomented by outside powers to destroy a nation, all casualties are NOT EQUAL. like Libya and Col. Q, doesn’t matter in the least what one thinks about Assad. or Putin. who started the cycle of violence to destroy these relatively prosperous, albeit relatively repressive, regimes? who is upping the ante? who is using regime repression as an excuse?

      i know. if only i could kick that donkey to death by stating the obvious.

      7. Our opposition is to forced regime change in Syria by U.S.-backed foreign powers and their mercenaries. It is not our business to support or oppose President Assad or the Syrian government. Only the Syrian people have the right to decide the legitimacy of their government.

  11. Given that my “expertise” is predicated on my many years for having lived and worked in the Latin America Region, so, when it comes to the Middle East, I consider myself to be an “amateur” at best. However, my Common Sense permits me to compete in expressing myself relative to the Middle East.

    Therefore, consider the following:

    Since Jimmy Carter vacated the Oval Office due to his failed re-election bid, Israel, the nation-state, determined our overall foreign policy towards the Middle East and nothing has changed for the better, given this history of these past 35 years. Thus, America’s “inner circle” for foreign policy has been easily designated when one views our Congressional support for such international relations, and as such, anything outside this inner circle that is Israel, should be viewed as the ‘outer circle.’

    Consequently, when I participate in any conversation regarding the this Outer Circle that is the Middle East, writ large, I find that the Progressives and the Left, refuse to acknowledge that this institutionalized “inner circle” is the driving force, and we, in the general public, are bleating out lips, and where our moral concerns are not found to have traction since “complaining” without institutional advocacy, is today’s “contemplation” and contemplation-only.

    Jaango

    • Apparently, comrade, there is a large intersection between world hegemonsters and near-orient hegemonsters. It’s more than a guilt complex that keeps “leftists” out of contention.

    • is the short version of your comment akin to this question asked my some who see what’s afoot: Is israel a client state of the US or is the US a client state of Israel?”? ;-)

  12. As your headline contains the all-important word “remember”, wendye, perhaps it is ok for me to be a wee bit offtopic with this link – it’s the best article I’ve read on the ‘remember’ front, one that gives me a smidgeon of hope for the future:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/10/17/meet-the-millennial-vote/

    • Hopefully they can outproduce the reproduction of trauma.

    • the woman seems ripe for anti-capitalism, not just a non-violent revolution. what would she make of the RT headline i just saw?

      ‘Madonna offers oral sex to Clinton voters ‘

      i guess i no longer have ‘hope’; obama made it just another four-letter word, and also, by my reckoning, the future IS Now. esp. vis a vis climate change: the future is locked in, and it ain’t pretty. sorry to be on a bummer….

    • i hope that rivera sun would be appalled by this worse-than-rubbish from democrat gatekeeper, rockefeller-funded bill mcKibben (as apparently was naomi klein’s this changes everything’):

      With No Illusions, Says Climate Leader, Clinton Must Be Elected—Then Fiercely Confronted’; the day after the election, the climate movement will ‘need to press harder than ever for real progress on the biggest crisis the world has ever faced.’

      according to several journalists at wronkindofgreen.org, common dreams is often chosen to announce movements to…nowhere. no, bill; we were the ones w/ delusions for believing you were anything but a sham big celebrity brand.
      .

      • I don’t know, wendye, as I haven’t followed her other writings, just thought this hit the mark as far as remembering past history. Sorry if it hit a sour note somewhere – I’m often tone deaf on such problems. My gut feeling is that there’s potential in younger folk who saw, even if it was an illusion, that ‘hope and change’ in 2008 and individually or en masse learned a huge lesson then, both with respect to the power in numbers they themselves possess and with respect to a certain loss of innocence when it comes to sweet talking politicians. It’s a bit the way weeds adapt to gmos, not wishing to badmouth the young’uns. I believe they are learning from all of this muck.

        • oh no, it didn’t hit a sour note, save for her ‘hope’ for climate change solutions in time. well, i guess electric cars as one is fairly silly, but those reasons are a far longer conversation. but all the farcical happyhappyjoyjoy about nations ‘ratifying to the cop21 protocols’ is just so much granola-munching at this point. but i do get a bang out of the ‘we can innovate ourselves out of this catastrophe! crowd.

          my links were to put more arrows into her quiver concerning this: ““The two dominant parties are courting my vote like a thick-headed douchebag who just wants to get laid.” on one, madonna is offering to give blow jobs to clinton voters, then mckibben, Climate Star, is telling folks that whoa, yes, the Red Queen may love fracking to bits, but now that we know…’we’ can hold her feet to the fire once she’s in the Whore House…i mean white house.

          i suppose i used ‘hope she’d be appalled’ by the latter because he may have indeed been a big fan of mcKibben, and oddly some of our heroes don’t receive the critical scrutiny they need. that was all. perhaps she might have said: ‘i’m voting for baracka/stein’, eh? or even: i’m withholding my vote, as it’s not an election, it’s a power consolidation’ (was that b? anyway, it tickled me).

  13. Rivera Sun is very clear about the duopoly in the article, I should emphasize that – I don’t think McKibben would sway her one way or the other.

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